When future returns are lower
Bogle's 2007 forecast, built from dividends, growth and the P/E ratio, and what actually happened next.
FinanceBogle ch. 7About 5 min: 3 reading, 2 practiceUpdated
General education, not financial advice.
- Build a rough return estimate from dividend yield, earnings growth and an assumed P/E change
- Show why the same costs take a bigger share of a lower return
- Explain the limits of any forecast
Builds toward: Invest on your own. Understand low-cost funds, read a fund factsheet, and spot a sales pitch.
Common-sense investing: the case for index funds: lesson 6 of 12
- Costs and the market
- Investors as a group earn the market minus costs 7 min
- Bogle ch. 2
- Where stock returns come from 5 min
- Bogle ch. 3
- Owning the whole market 4 min
- Bogle ch. 5
- Fund returns versus investor returns 6 min
- Bogle ch. 6
- Taxes are costs too 5 min
- Bogle ch. 7
- When future returns are lower 5 min
- Bogle ch. 8–9
- Why past winners rarely repeat 5 min
- Costs and the market
- Is advice worth paying for? 7 min
- Bogle ch. 11–12
- Costs go on forever 5 min
- Bogle ch. 13
- Bonds and money-market funds 4 min
- Bogle ch. 14–15
- New indexes and ETFs 5 min
- Bogle ch. 16–18
- Graham, the arithmetic, and a plan 5 min
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Pairs with Bogle, The Little Book of Common Sense Investing (2007), chapter 7, "When the Good Times No Longer Roll"
What it is
Bogle uses the method from Where stock returns come from to look ahead, from the end of 2006 to 2016:
- Dividend yield then: just under 2% (the historical average was 4.5%).
- Earnings growth: about 6% a year, in line with the economy's expected growth. So the investment return ≈ 2 + 6 = 8%.
- P/E ratio: about 18 then. If it eased to 16 over 10 years: (16 ÷ 18)^(1/10) − 1 ≈ −1.2% a year.
His estimate: about 7% a year for U.S. stocks, well below the 12.5% of the previous 25 years, of which about 2.7 points had come from the P/E doubling from about 9 to 18. He calls his P/E assumption "little more than" a guess, and invites readers to plug in their own P/E: 25 would add about 3 points, 12 would take about 4 away.
Quick check
Tap an answer to check it.
Dividend yield 2%, earnings growth 5%, P/E unchanged. Estimated return?
- Add the dividend yield
- Add the earnings growth
Show answer
about 7%. With no P/E change, return ≈ yield + growth.
Why it matters
The same costs take a bigger share of a smaller return. Bogle's example: costs of 2.5 points a year take about 17% of a 15% return, 25% of a 10% return, but about 36% of a 7% return (he rounds the last to "nearly 40 percent"). When returns are low, costs matter more.
Worked example
What did U.S. stocks actually return over the next 10 years? From the S&P 500's yearly total returns (2007: +5.48%, 2008: −36.55%, then a long recovery to 2016: +11.77%), 1 invested at the start of 2007 grew to about 1.95 by the end of 2016: about 6.9% a year.
That is close to Bogle's 7%, but look at the path: the decade included one of the worst crashes in history, in 2008. A forecast of the average says nothing about the ride, and the near-match was partly luck: the P/E, dividends and growth didn't follow his exact assumptions along the way.
Common mistake
Treating the past few decades' return as the expected future return. If part of a past return came from a rising P/E, it can't simply be repeated: the P/E would have to keep rising forever.
Key terms
- expected return
- a reasoned estimate of a future average return, never a promise
- assumption
- an input you choose, such as the future P/E
- sensitivity
- how much the answer changes when an assumption changes
- sequence
- the order of good and bad years along the way
Practise the key terms
Tap a card to turn it over. 4 cards.
| Front | Back |
|---|---|
| expected return | a reasoned estimate of a future average return, never a promise |
| assumption | an input you choose, such as the future P/E |
| sensitivity | how much the answer changes when an assumption changes |
| sequence | the order of good and bad years along the way |
Practice
Work it through
A market has a dividend yield of 1.5% and you assume earnings grow 5% a year. You assume the P/E falls from 25 to 20 over 10 years.
- 1.5 + 5
- (20 ÷ 25) to the power 1/10, minus 1
- Add the two
- 1.5 ÷ 4.29 × 100
Quick quiz
Tap an answer to check it.
Why did Bogle expect lower returns in 2007 than over the previous 25 years?
- His method uses yield, growth and the P/E
Show answer
The dividend yield was low, and the past P/E rise couldn't repeat. Lower yield, plus no repeat of the P/E doubling.
The S&P 500 returned about 6.9% a year over 2007–2016. What does that show?
- One near-hit doesn't prove a method; the path was very rough
Show answer
Bogle's estimate was close, but the decade included a crash the forecast didn't describe. An average return says nothing about the path.
The other view
Other analysts can reasonably assume different numbers for each building block: how fast earnings per share will grow (Bogle himself notes that new share issues can drag it up to 2 points a year below total earnings growth) and what P/E is "normal". Bogle says his own P/E assumption is little more than a guess. Use the method to understand what you are assuming, not to predict a number.
Returns data: Aswath Damodaran, "Historical Returns on Stocks, Bonds and Bills", NYU Stern (updated January 2026). Last checked: 27 October 2026.
In short
- Rough expected return ≈ dividend yield + earnings growth + P/E change per year.
- Bogle's 2007 estimate: about 7%. The actual 2007–2016 return: about 6.9%, through a severe crash.
- The same costs take a larger share of a lower return.
- A forecast states assumptions; it is not a promise.
Mastery check
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Check yourself
Answer in your head first, then open the answer. Nothing is saved.
Name Bogle's three building blocks for a return estimate.
Show answer
Dividend yield, earnings growth, and the change in the P/E ratio.
Costs are 2 points. What share do they take of a 4% return, and of a 10% return?
Show answer
Half (50%) of 4%; a fifth (20%) of 10%.
Why isn't a forecast that came out close proof that the method works?
Show answer
One result can be partly luck; the assumptions along the way didn't all match, and the path included a crash.
Further reading
- John C. Bogle, The Little Book of Common Sense Investing (John Wiley & Sons, 2007), chapter 7.
- Aswath Damodaran, Historical Returns on Stocks, Bonds and Bills, NYU Stern: free yearly S&P 500 returns since 1928.
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